[gisele]

And now for my third post in a row...

hmmm......I have a tale to share gingerpale. It's something I grew up with, so I am kinda used to it and just accept that something was happening regardless of whether it was supernatural or what

The house I grew up in had a few interesting things. It's an old house, out in the country on a farm....the room next to my bedroom used to be a terrace, but was closed in to become an office and had a concrete floor. I used to lie in bed at night listening to footsteps pacing up and down the room, everynight at the same time. My step-mum and step-brother could hear it too, and asked me about it both at different times. Certain rooms would be warm one minute then freezing cold the next, regardless of whether the sun was shining directly into the room, or there was a heater/fire going.

It was a house I always, and still do have trouble sleeping in. I really noticed the difference whem my mum, brother and i moved out to a new home I could actually fall asleep at night easily. I have had friends, who didn't like being in the house, and some people have said things about the "feelings" the house gives off to my dad and step-mum.

[madameshawshank]

gisele...lateness?..sweetness any post any time

a friend has THE book at the moment...have been speaking with her this afternoon...told me it's spot on with her husband...she didn't speak of her own...perhaps coming to terms with the shadow as we are all called to do!

another friend told me this story...when her daughter was quite young she sensed things...could see things...that others couldn't...one morning the daughter announced that Uncle so and so was coming later that day to show them his new red car (Uncle so and so hadn't mentioned anything about getting a new car)...

later that day, he arrived to show them his new red car he'd bought that afternoon...on the spur of the moment...
_________________
"I've never accepted the external appearance of things as the whole truth. The world is much more elaborate than the nerves of our eye can tell us." - James Gleeson

[gisele]

Thats very cool. It has been said that the young are more sensitive to these sorts of things, and that people tend to loose the sense as they get older, unless they work hard at listening to their intuition/gut feelings.

I try my hardest, to go with my gut feelings, but it can be hard though when your head gets involved

[madameshawshank]

try to get my head around it!...closest I can get to it is the idea that everything is happening at the same moment...all IS at the one moment...as I say...I try to get my head around it!

I saw something on the net once...with arrows and such...an explanation of how it could be...the 1700s and the 1900s and the 2800s and the 3000s all at the one moment....intriguing..

oh ok Sarape..that's quite enough of your laughter!!
_________________
"I've never accepted the external appearance of things as the whole truth. The world is much more elaborate than the nerves of our eye can tell us." - James Gleeson

[Zoe]

I promised not to go into politics anymore, as I agree with Simona that the effect on these boards is a bad one. But Griffin, I would like to urge you to check out sources other than the Guardian; I believe that on a topic as complex as this one, getting information from many sources is preferrable. Plus I have some issues with the editorial choices in the Guardian; it's not nearly as unbiased as people would like to think, imho.

Also, try reading blogs and not just major media sources - have become quite a blog addict myself! I recommend Lisa Goldman's On the Face, which is very eloquent and well-thought out, and on the Lebanese side, the Lebanese Political Journal - interesting and informative. Of course there are many other excellent blogs on both sides. Let me know what you think.

[charlsy]

Keeping to the original aim of this forum, I'll share the story of a little lady I knew. She was a friend of my mother's. As a young girl she was plagued by exzema attacks on her whole body. One day she was contacted, by mail if i remember well, by 2 brothers from Belgium, known in seers' circles ! They had "sensed" her from afar (she lived near the italian border) and told her she had a gift for healing people and had to use it or it would "eat" her. So, she started healing people, and as soon as she did, the exzema disappeared. Of all names, she was called Marie-Madeleine !
Years later she met my mother and going through some of her books, she looked at one about chinese medecine (my mother was passionate about natural healing) and exclaimed "oh! that's the points I make !", when she found a map of acupuncture energy lines and dots. For years she had been touching people on the exact spots a chinese doctor would stick his needles in !
She also used to feel things very strongly, sensing a coming earthquake a day before it happened : she "saw" the buildings moving (yes, we do have earthquakes in France, occasionally, especially in the south and around the Alps). And on one particularly sad occasion, she suddenly felt ill, telling those around her she saw blood, felt death, heard people screaming in italian. At that precise moment a fight between supporters of an italian soccer team and a belgian one, in a belgian stadium, about 1000 kms from where she was, resulted in a terrible wave of panic and many people were crushed to death.
I can't explain what she felt, what she was, she was this sweet little lady who did not earn much from her talent but helped a lot of people feel better. I do not think science can explain her, nor the people that many french hospitals use, in an unofficial way, who "take away the fire" from some burn victims, removing the sensation of heat. are these people more attuned to those around them, are they channeling some energy ? who knows ? the real ones are discreet, don't ask for much money, don't advertise maybe one day science will know how they "work".

[gingerpale]

Well. charlsy, since I started this topic I feel slightly obligated to answer posts, though I'm pretty sure people are gettin' sick o' me. Your story was interesting of course, but again, if someone could see the future the news would spread like wildfire, no one would speak of anything else, and that person would be famous forever, don't you think? It would be impossible to be "discreet" and completely unnecessary to advertise!

Here in Utah we have the Intermountain Burn Center, affiliated with the University hospital. It serves the biggest geographical area in the US. No mention of psychics "taking away the fire"! I think those doctors and nurses would investigate thoroughly ANY way to alleviate the especially bad suffering of bad burns. Where did you hear of the French hospital use of these people?

On a lighter note, I read a few days ago that children undergoing minor medical procedures felt less pain if mommy was there, but even less pain if they were watching tv! No wonder TV is used as a babysitter.

[charlsy]

Gingerpale, I did not say she saw the future, she just sometimes "felt" things very strongly, and usually it happened.
As for the persons "taking away" the fire, my cousin saw one in the hospital when her 2year old son had the strange notion of putting his arm in a pot of boiling water. Thes persons are by no way "psychics", they are just people who have this strange hability to make the sensation of burning disappear. Just like some people do find water. Weird, but what was weird a few centuries ago (and sometimes worth a turn on a nice bonfire, or dip in a river, preferably sewn inside a burlap bag) has often become scientific evidence...
People once thought that bathing was next to evil, yet when hygiene developped, mortality rates dropped. Puerperal fever was thought to be almost normal for women giving birth, and when Dr Semelweiss figured out that hospital tended by male doctors, who also practiced autopsies, suffered much heavier casualties than those where only nuns worked, he was reviled and treated as a madman. Pasteur proved him right.
So who knows ? Strange things happen. We don't know how or why. Science can't explain everything yet ! And I like that remaining mystery.

[gingerpale]

I hardly know how to communicate in this topic anymore, I'm afraid there are hard feelings.. but some thoughts--

I'm sorry, I DID misquote you , you did not say she could see the future. You explained she just "felt" things very strongly, and usually it happened.

Those "people who have this strange ability to make the sensation of burning disappear" should be brought to the attention of more than just the hospital staff they work with.

"Pasteur proved him right." Yes, Pasteur proved the superstitions wrong, with science.
And I know it's true that science can't explain everything yet, but I'm glad that scientists hate the remaining mystery!

[madameshawshank]

sing the mystery
tend the garden
_________________
"I've never accepted the external appearance of things as the whole truth. The world is much more elaborate than the nerves of our eye can tell us." - James Gleeson

[sweetbabyjames]

My town hosts a quirky halloween parade each year. It usually consists of citizens and small groups of political activists, musicians and various religious followers, all dressed in their gruesomest & silliest. It's a fabulously disorganized din.

This year, the city council is being pressured to either cancel or censor the parade due to its provocative nature.

For me, enjoyment of halloween is all about suspention of disbelief. It's about irreverence toward evil spirits and appreciation of the grotesque in life, death, afterlife or otherwise.

Madame, your link to the evangelical church articel made me think of our own town's little debate. If we have something to hide, perhaps that's the very thing we should examine!

[simona]

Gingerpale,
Any topic dealing with faith, beliefs vs. sceptics and science is doomed to arouse deep fellings, on both sides. Even more than politics.
I've learned that you don't argue with believers. One has to accept that there are believers and non believers, and that's it.
Superstitions, religious beliefs, believing in the surnatural, in metaphysical phenomenons- are unarguable. You either believe or you don't.
Dialogues on this subject are always on parallel levels, so why bother.

No more war. That's real .

[madameshawshank]

Simona, you ask "why bother?"

Because we learn from each other's narratives....not necessarily to become as the other...simply to acknowledge the story of a life...

And as I listen to stories I can reflect on why I am as I am...

I reflect on how we become ourselves....

hugs to all...both believers and skeptics...

time, methinks, for us to pour some wondrous liquid into exquisite glasses...such as the ones in the gallery in Melbourne, Victoria..

let us raise our glasses to life!
_________________
"I've never accepted the external appearance of things as the whole truth. The world is much more elaborate than the nerves of our eye can tell us." - James Gleeson

[madameshawshank]

gingerpale...to bed? ok...however not until you've placed a platter of jelly doughnuts on the circular table...let us feast awhile
_________________
"I've never accepted the external appearance of things as the whole truth. The world is much more elaborate than the nerves of our eye can tell us." - James Gleeson

[sweetbabyjames]

I live in New England. I believe the opposition is primarily conservative. Probably less on behalf of their children's sensitivities than their own, since two of last year's more entertaining features were the Leftist Marching Band and the Bush Administration Chain Gang (Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice, et al in black and white stripes toting lead balls and chains).

Halloween's one of my favorites too. I love the examination of fears and beliefs, since they're usually so closely related. It's such a primal play. I wish we observed more pagan traditions as a culture.