[dory]

Hi all,

I am curious as to whether others besides me are experiencing this. I live in Madison, Wisconsin, a fairly cosmopolitan and food oriented community-- or so I always thought. We have one of the highest ratios of restaurants to citizens in the U.S. and our local farmers markets are regularly mentioned in food magazines. We also have a large cooperative grocery store that has truly excellent produce. I am not vegetarian, but I have an esthetic preference for a lot of vegetarian food, so I have been shopping a lot in our cooperative grocery. I also shop at Whole Foods, and at our local supermarket. I have noticed a few times recently that I have had difficulty getting nice meat at the supermarket, but since I only eat a little meat, I have been buying much of it at Whole Foods where it looks nice and there is a good selection. Last summer, however, my brother was visiting, and wanted to cook pork tenderloin. Whole Foods was out, so we went to three different supermarkets (different chains) before we found one that was not pre-marinated in a plastic bag. Yesterday in honor of the cool weather that has finally arrived I wanted to make a pot roast. I am trying to cut back on my food budget so I went to the regular supermarket instead of the WHole Foods meat counter. Again, I could only find small cuts of meat, for sauteeing, and most were in bags and were pre-marinated or rubbed with an unidentifiable spice rub-- probably containing MSG. I asked the butcher if they had any meat for pot roast and he looked at me like I was insane.

THey had lots of pot roast, only it was pre-cooked and inside plastic and cardboard, waiting to be microwaved. It was next to these horrible plastic bags of pre-cooked mashed potatoes. When I checked out the woman behind me had nothing in her cart but frozen dinners, yoghurt and soft drinks. I had bought some vegetables, and so I had to tell the checker the name of each of the veggies and spell it so he could type it into his automated system. Obviously he had not seen any of them before-- even the brussels sprouts. He asked me what a rutabaga was.

I went to WHole Foods and thanked the butcher for being there. I then took my pot roast home, browned it and braised it for an hour while I was doing something else in another room, for an almost totally effortless meal. I am wondering what it happening to our culture when you can't even find real food in the grocery store. In memory of the plastic bags in the supermarket I made real potatoes, mashed with rutabaga. How are we going to pass a culture of cooking down if there is no real food available any more in our stores? Is anyone else experiencing this? I feel I am being pushed more and more to buy my food in expensive specialty stores. I am an assistant professor and my husband is an artist so our food budget is not huge, but I am unwilling to soak or wash chemically infused meat in a hopeless attempt to get the additives out. I am pretty upset about this. Is mine the only city where this is happening? Is it mainly the U.S. or is it happening in other countries too?

Dory

[KYHeirloomer]

Dory, I'm surprised you haven't noticed this before. It's a trend that's been going on for many years.

Most mainstream supermarkets do not have butchers, haven't had them for a long time. Instead they have had poorly trained meat cutters, who produced a limited number of cuts, not from half-cows, but from primals.

Even that is going by the board, in favor of pre-cut, pre-packaged meats.

But it's not just meats. Supermarkets have all been moving in directions that allow them to compete with fast food outlets. Thus, in addition to all the frozen dinners and processed foods, they sell rotiserie chickens, and have salad bars, and pre-made foodstuffs in the deli-counters, etc. They're putting in sandwich shops, and leasing space to Starbucks and the like.

I think this movement is quite understandable, and reflects the desires of their customer base. Most Americans aren't interested in good food. They're interested in convenience, first and foremost, and price, second. They don't know the difference between quality food and it's opposite, and have been trained to expect, if not low, at least reasonably priced, foods. And they're not willing to pay the necessary premium to get the best.

If you need any more proof of this, mosey over to the frozen food lockers and check out an item called Crock Pot Classics. Everything you need to make a complete slow-cooker meal. People actually buy that overpriced, over-salted product because it's easier than spending ten minutes cutting up meat and veggies.

There are exceptions. Fresh Mart and Harris Teeter are two chains that are still dedicated to selling real food, and have butchers on scene. I don't patronize Whole Foods, and was disappointed when they bought out Wild Oats, because the quality has gone rapidly down hill. I've never been in a Trader Joe's, but am told that you can still get quality meats and produce there.

Certainly there is a counter trend. We're seeing a growing movement towards grass-fed, anti-biotic free meats. And real (as opposed to the supermarket rip-off) organic produce. But it carries a premium precisely because it costs so much more to raise.

[dory]

Sadly I have been driven into almost exclusively shopping at the coop, little specialty grocery stores that I know have decent food and Whole Foods, otherwise known as Whole Paycheck. Most people pay much less for food than I do. I know a couple who eat on $65 a week. I have no idea what one must eat to feed two people on that kind of money. I am trying to economize because my salary is not that big so I am trying to shop at less expensive stores. I think things have gotten a lot worse just in the past couple of years!


Dory

[KYHeirloomer]

No argument there. Things have degenerated at an accelerating pace the past few years.

But keep in mind that Sandra Lee and Rachael Ray are the most popular celebrities on the Food Network. All the supermarkets are doing is reflecting their customers' desires.

I'm in the same boat as you. Low income, and food being the single biggest line item in the budget. But I refuse to falsely economise. With food, more than anything else, you get what you pay for.

I pay the premium incurred by shopping in the specialty stores, ethnic markets, and coops. But I'm getting both taste and quality for my dollars, which, to me, is an important consideration.

And, as it turns out, the premium, overall, isn't really that large. When the Fresh Mart opened in Lexington we did a shopping there. Spent right on a hundred bucks ($100.01 to be exact). I then tried replicating that list at Kroger. Couldn't do it exactly because there are so many things that Kroger doesn't even stock. But, near as I could determine, that same shopping list would have run $94.

For me, a 6% premium to assure fresh, wholesome food, is worth the price.

I also have a general rule. If two apprently similar items are only a penny or two apart there's probably no good reason for it, and I buy the cheapest. But if item A is 27 cents, and similar item B is 95 cents there's usually a good reason for it.

[Erin]

I had been trying hard to find the good old chuck roast with the bone in that I ate when I was a kid with no luck. My butcher Ferro told me that no one will sell it anymore, because there is no demand. People are intimidated by the bone. That is crazy talk. How do people expect to gather bones for stock? What about eating the sinful marrow? Ferro cuts the most beautiful meat and now sends me home with a marrow bone on the side to place in the pan while I'm roasting.

I hope that the downsizing of real food in grocery leads to more butcher shops, bakeries, etc. . Now as the US and others face such a huge crisis I find it strange that people would want all of this pre-made garbage. It's funny that you can roast a chicken and stretch it for a few meals plus make stock or you can buy a ready made chicken bowl and all you have after one meal is an empty bowl. I am looking to the cooks of the 1930's-40's for inspiration. They could do anything.
_________________
"It's watery....and yet there's a smack of ham."

"It's hot ham water."

[KYHeirloomer]

You ain't kidding about how far chicken can stretch.

We usually monitor the sales, and buy the roasting hens when they are a bargain. Typically I'll buy three of them at once. By ringing the changes I can prepare as many as 21 servings---ranging from roasted parts to chicken a la king. And that's without counting the big pot of stock.

Anybody wanna do the math? Typically, on sale, I pay six bucks each for the chix. So 18 divided by 21 is the price per serving.

It can get even better. If I don't need stock (I almost always have a supply in the freezer), the backs are used for crab bait. Which means X number of additional meal servings. When the crabs are cooperative X becomes quite a large number.

[dory]

I totally agree.My grandmother made great food from what I can tell in the depression and the war years. By the time my mother married in the 50s, people were living on condensed soup casseroles. Things have now deteriorated to the point where we can't get even the fresh food I remember from my childhood. I am going to start putting notes in the suggestion box of the various supermarkets in town letting them know that I left and went to Whole Foods or to the coop because I could not find any real food in their stores. The worse is, that while the real food is disappearing, the stores are supersizing-- bursting with processed foods loaded with artificial colors, preservatives and "flavor enhancers"-- i.e. edible perfumes that make food flavors more intense.


Dory

[KYHeirloomer]

......and high fructose corn syrup, and salt, and a long list of things I cannot pronounce and don't want in my mouth.

[srk]

My biggest issue with regular grocery stores is their produce - both selection and quantity. I used to live in the Bay Area in California, where I had ready access to a seriously gourmet grocery store (Andronico's), with correspondingly gourmet produce and prices. I also had Berkeley Bowl, with a gigantic room full of cheap high-quality produce, and multiple farmer's markets within walking distance. But this summer I moved to Boston, and I don't know where to go to buy vegetables. My local grocery store is uninspiring and often out of basic items (I once went to three shops before I found fresh parsley, of all things!). The farmer's markets are much more limited and will be ending this month. And Trader Joe's is great for lots of things, but their produce is generally pre-wrapped into multi-packs that would force me to buy four bell peppers when I can only use one. Despite being mostly unemployed at the moment (doing some consulting, looking for a full-time job), I'm still willing to pay a premium for good food, but I honestly don't even know where to look.

[Erin]

srk,
Have you tried the giant Thursday Market that is between the North End and Fannieul Hall? Giant and amazing! If I lived in Boston I'd stock up there and I may be mistaken but it runs most of the year. I've been to it in March. I'm going to Boston this weekend, I'll ask my friend where she shops and get back to you.

KYH,
Have you seen the high fructose corn syrup commercial trying to claim it's all natural, made with the goodness of corn? By that logic everything on the planet in edible. I'm hungry for soup. . . maybe I'll look at my cleaning supplies.

The great thing about not shopping at a grocery store is that you are actually able to develop relationships with the people who bring you your food. The whole experience with food is totally enriched right from the beginning by it.
_________________
"It's watery....and yet there's a smack of ham."

"It's hot ham water."

[climbeyalex]

I heard about this trend going on in the US and a bit of it was spreading to the Singaporean supermarkets too. Before I left, I was seeing a huge increase in pre-marinated meats at the deli and meat sections. And for a while the government seem bent on shutting down wet markets and provision shops and replacing them with more sanitary supermarkets. The ready to cook or eat thing is quite a huge thing in Thailand where I live now. I think its quite ingenious that they have the little packages of fresh chilies, herbs and spices you need for soups and curries all packed together ready to be ground into paste and cooked. Its a lot less mind boggling than trying to buy 6 chilies when the supermarket only sells them by the pound. As for ready to eat they're everywhere, in the supermarkets and by the street. The thing about living here is that even though the supermarkets offer these options, people still want their fresh food. We're extremely lucky to have three fresh markets that we know of. A small one down the road from our house, a larger one outside of town and a giant wholesale market that opens at midnight, selling incredibly fresh produce and meat at low prices. I need to stay up late one of these days and go there for food shopping.

[KYHeirloomer]

>Have you tried the giant Thursday Market that is between the North End and Fannieul Hall?<

What a pale imitation of the real thing that is.

I lived in Boston, on the wrong side of Beacon Hill, before they closed down Haymarket Square---until then the longest continually operating market in America. Pushcart vendors selling produce and some other foodstuffs, and the wholesale meat market close at hand.

Haymarket only operated on Fridays and Saturdays, and the closer it got to 4PM on Saturday, the lower the prices. I remember once bying 16 pounds of rock shrimp for four bucks.

Typical of Boston's pols, they either didn't know or didn't care what they had. So they shut all that down in order to turn Fannieul Hall into an upscale flea market. Very sad.

We were starving students, in the late '60s. But still could do some really fancy entertaining. Even back then, 99 cents/pound for beef tenderloin was a bargain. Meat and poultry from the wholesale market; garden truck from the pushcarts, and a short walk into the North End for Italian pastries. You couldn't get hurt.

[msue]

Dory, to your original question: I've noticed precisely the same thing! We have a good range of groceries and ethnic markets here, as well as specialty shops - so access to good quality produce and meats has not been a problem. But I've noticed that mainstream grocery stores mostly sell processed foods from Stouffer's, etc. Those Crock-Pot frozen concoctions amaze me - who can't chop up a few veggies and cube some meat?? Even my 23 year old nephew living in his first apartment makes really good stews (using the original Crock-Pot that I inherited from my grandmother's sister!)

In the last year or so, I've finally seen the mainstream store closest to me (owned by Safeway) begin to offer organic produce and a few - not many - decent cheeses. Maybe they lost too many customers to the Whole Foods and Central Markets that within easy driving distance, not to mention the farmer's market and multiple ethnic stores.

I could go on but I'm preaching to the choir here.

[KYHeirloomer]

>......begin to offer organic produce and a few.......<

Now you've really touched a button, Sue. Supermarket organic produce is, by and large, a shuck. You may as well buy the standard stuff and save the unjustified premiums they charge.

When the word "organic" is uttered, we all have a mental image of the source: A small, diverse grower who sees him/herself as a steward of the land, lovingly growing vegetables without the use of artificial chemicals, harvesting them when they're at their peak, and delivering them to the consumer.

True organic growers live by one credo: If you want to grow good plants you first grow good soil.

Supermarket organics couldn't be further from that image. They are grown by the organic divisions of factory farms, using essentially the same tecnhniques as conventional produce.

It's grown on a monocultural basis. They depend on massive infusions of pesticides, insecticides, fungicides, and fertilizers, rather than building good soil. The produce is harvested when unripe. And varieties are choosen based on their ability to withstand the rigors of the food transportation system.

The amendments they use are legally organic. But that's because Monsanto et als virtually wrote the federal organic certification program. Thus, there are many items included that nobody in their right mind would consider to be "organic." And, among those that are, they reach for the ones that do the most damage. After all, why use a natural insecticide that targets pests when you can use one that kills every insect in the field?

The long and the short of it is that supermarket organics are strictly a marketing ploy. And anyone who buys them is wasting their money.

[dory]

There are several natural foods stores in Boston, but the question is: where are they located relative to where you live. There are two Harvest Coops and at least one Whole Foods. However, the problem is not necessarily where a person can, potentially find natural foods in a given urban area, but where, logistically, someone can buy decent food on the way home from work, or on a Saturday morning without getting totally stressed out and spending hours driving around. I realize that I am extremely lucky, in my current location, because I have a natural foods coop 5 minutes away by car and 20 minutes by bicycle, and a small, independently owned grocery store and a Whole Foods, each 10-15 minutes away by car, although in opposite directions. There is also a Trader Joe's close by, but let's not go there. Their mission statement includes making it possible to get dinner on the table in the shortest time possible. THis is why they pre-cut vegetables. For me that adds time anyway, because anything you don't use the day you buy it has to be thrown away, but apparently we are not supposed to count time in the car as inconvenient-- only time in the kitchen.

We get dependent on mega grocery stores because it can take so long and be so inconvenient to get to good stores. That is why, I think, it is worth the effort to try to convince conventional grocery stores to carry "real" food. I am going to do this-- not that I think the marketing people will listen to me. I am going to go around to several outlets of our local chain and put a couple of suggestions in their suggestion box, using different handwriting, and requesting more "real" food. I am hoping that if people who love food and cooking were to request food instead of pre=packaged ingredients they would listen to us, just like they have listened to the Sandra Lee crowd. The reason I am not hopeful is there are not yet enough of us, and those who do embrace a food ethic mostly have given up, and drive miles to Whole Foods and pay the premium price. I still want them to hear my voice, however.


Dory